The Gazette 1975

Law Students Debat ng

Inaugural

((19 February, 1975)

P l

Cocney, T.D., Minister for Justice, in the

'se of proposing a vote of thanks to Mr. Paul

nratty, the Auditor of the Kings Inns Students

Dating Society, for his paper on legal education

gratulatcd him on picking this subject of funda-

p j

importance to the future of the legal pro-

s , o n a n d

avoiding the temptation to be with

delivering a paper on some of the in subjects

as family law or so-called repressive law. The

^mister continued.

,e lc

8al profession is in a privileged position in

Society in that it has a monopoly of financially

a n d

r a l , v c

business. If that monopoly is to be justified

continued the profession must give to the public

e a

' jy professional service. It is my belief a service

ent

s t a n d a r d

c a n n

° t be provided unless new

r a n t s l o

the profession are fully and adequately

ined to carry out their jobs. This has not L n the

f°sition up to now."

^ be Minister reviewed the submissions made to his

p a r

m e n

t on the subject of legal education. The

con '

t h C S e W 3 S 3 S f a r b a c k a s 1 9 6 1

T h e r e h a s b e e n

^nsistent pressure from the Incorporated Law

tice

C t y f 0 r r c f o r m i n t h e

education of their appren-

- The Minister said he was glad to have been

to co-operate with the Society in bringing about

* * educational regime for intending Solicitors

^ m e n c i n g next academic year. He thanked the

a n d

e t

their attitude to this important subject

stud

S U r e t b a t t b e n e w r e

S '

m e

involving academic

inst

l 6 a d i n g t 0 a

degree followed by a period of

ruction by the Society in the practical and com-

H'oT^

, i c a t i o n

°f

academic legal knowledge

serv-

W e l1 fit o u r n e w S o l i c i t o r s

to offer a prope.-

car

t h e

u b l i c

f r o m t b e

very start of their

eers. "The efficiency of a new Solicitor up to now

and

Cllded o n b o w t b o r o u

b a n

apprenticeship he had

l n m y e x

e r i e n c e

many apprenticeships were in

» *

o n l

y . I have indicated to the Society and they

Pt my point of view that no student having taken

avv

degree should be deprived entry to the pro-

c h

s ,

° n lor want of a master and that the practice of

rging premiums to apprentices should be dis-

°ntinued."

t h ^ if Minister continued by saying that he hoped

e x

Benchers of Kings Inn would shortly follow the

Ple of the Incorporated Law Society by introduc-

g a

course of studies which would involve both the

the

a n d t b e

r a c t i c a l

subjects. He stated that

^ Present practice whereby a qulified barrister had

W a s

e a r n

bis trade by devilling to an established man

less'

a n

a m a t e u r

s b

approach where a hard pro-

sionalism was required.

bra i f

m n o t

i n

a v o u r

° l

t b e

lusion of the two

n c h e s

of the Society but each will have to justify

S e p a r

a te existence by a high standard of pro-

c om°

n a l

Performance. The Solicitors branch has

cnced reforms to ensure just this. If the other

branch fails to follow suit, I would fear such pressure

for fusion between the branches that even I, an

opponent of fusion, would find it hard to resist."

The Minister continued to say that he would like

to see as soon as possible a system whereby law

students .would commence their studies by taking a

• degree and at that stage they would opt to become

barristers or solicitors and enter on the practical

course of study provided by the professional body of

their choice. At the moment a teenager leaving school

has to decide at that relatively immature stage which

particular branch of the profession he will join and

the Minister remarked that he thought a more mature

choice could be made at the degree stage.

Mr. Justice Kenny suggested that the whole system

of legal education should be confined to the uni-

versities, instead of being split between

the

Universities, the King's Inns and the Incorporated Law

Society. Seven of the nine E.E.C. countries trained

their law students totally within universities, and the

break in the law student's training in Ireland was

indefensible.

Mr. Patrick Hanratty echoed the point on frag-

mentation. A professional student who wished to

take an academic degree found that he had to take

separate examinations in the same subject in separate

institr'ions, usually in separate years.

This arose through a lack of liaison and co-

operation between the various institutions. No real

progress could be made in solving the basic problems

of legal education until this primary problem had

been overcome, he added.

Mr. Hanratty said that the emphasis was on

lecturing, almost to the exclusion of other forms of

instruction. Dialogue between teacher and student

was impossible in overcrowded classrooms. Practical

exercises in the application of the rules learned at

lectures were almost non-existent and, in many cases,

visits to the courts were not even encouraged.

"In this respect not alone is law studied without

adequate reference to its social context, but also

without adequate reference to its practical legal

context. The student's concept of justice and appreci-

ation of the way the law works is lost in a tangled

mass of equitable easements, memoranda and, if he

can't stand the pace, tranquilisers."

Because a long-term solution could not be found

without greater liaison between the various institu-

tions, Mr. Hanratty suggested the establishment of a

Council for Legal Education.

The council would consist of representatives from

the Benchers of the King's Inns, the Council of the Law

Society, the Law Departments of the Universities and

the legal professions.

Apart from eliminating fragmentation in the

education system, the Council of Legal Education

could deal in a rational

and unified manner with the

problems affecting

all

branches

of t h e legal e d u c a t i o n.