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GAZETTE
APRIL 1977
Is that a little bit of playing with figures, though?
I think it is a little bit of playing with figures by the
Commission, because it certainly is not playing with
figures by us, it is anything but. And, also, I think it is
very unfair that it has not been highlighted that the
increase that was received since January 1964 was in
Autumn 1972. That is the only increase and it was 20%.
The Rules Committee recommended 40% and the
Government vetoed it and reduced it to 20%. So, since
1964 until now, in the last 13 years there has only been a
20% increase and the present increase was based on a
1974 recommendation so we're running much faster to
stand still, working longer hours and there is a serious, a
very serious aspect of this. We tried to highlight the
problem of the solicitor in the rural area, we tried to get
an increase for him in the Land Registry scale because
these solicitors are not finding it in any way
economic to bring in assistants to cut out delays — in fact
a lot of them cannot afford to pay the going rate to an
assistant solicitor, they are getting older, their health is
suffering, the work has to be done, they provide in many
cases a social service and now the increase which would
help to cut out the delays which you highlight is not being
given and this is going to be serious. The Government is
going to regret this.
Well the position that, I think, a lot of listeners would
adopt is that solicitors in many, many cases do not
provide a very good service and you know the number of
complaints that come through this office and that I have
been in touch with you about and other colleagues of
yours as well, and are you saying that if the fees aren't
increased substantially that kind of delay, that kind of
problem, is going to continue.
I think in rural Ireland it is going to get worse in certain
areas because delays often arise because people do not
have enough staff. The delays now in many of the
Governmnet offices arise because of this. There is 66|%
more applications in the Land Registry in the last 12
months than before and there is no increase in staff. How
can the same staff deal with 6 6 | increase? And if a man
is suffering from bad health and getting older he should be
able to pay an assistant and bring him into the practice. If
the fees are not economic he is not going to be able to do
that, and it is going to mean practices will close and it is
going to mean you are going to get more drift towards the
city. At the moment most of the big work goes towards
the cities and we wanted to try and give the country
solicitors a better and fairer crack of the whip so that they
could provide the service which is very essential for the
country as a whole.
Do you find that at the moment there are a lot of young
solicitors qualifying and then not going back to where
they came from?
This is the problem and there is also the problem which
most people do not think about, because it does not effect
them, but the liberty of the citizen is at stake. If there is
not a lawyer on tap in the local village or town, it is going
to cause problems.
Do you think that perhaps you could overcome that by
getting down to talking about demarcations between
yourselves and barristers? Things like that which might
make it easier and indeed work that perhaps a solicitor's
clerk could appropriately do?
Well, solicitor's clerks could not deal with court work,
they could not go in and defend
No but Conveyancing for example which is
recommended for the Examiner of Restrictive Practices
Well, yes in simple cases they can and under
supervision they do at the moment, but they must be
supervised. It is also significant that it is very
unfortunate that you cannot say to yourself that the
profession is guaranteed a future which it should have
had if the Consultant's recommendations had been
accepted, particularly in rural Ireland.
I saw afigure in a newspaper today of £40 per hour for
a solicitor in the High Court. £40 an hour is good money
by anybody's standards.
I am glad you raised that because that sounds very
attractive and I wish it were true, but the £40 an hour
takes into account all the research and background work.
It is like saying a doctor is paid £1 a minute because he
charges £60 for an hour's operation. But in fact he has
consultancy work beforehand, he has to examine the
patient, he has to look at X-rays, there is a lot of
background work. It is the same with the legal profession.
In no way do you go in at 11 o'clock and you come out at
12 o'clock with £40. That would be ludicrous and we do
not want that.
But looking at the difference between the money that
you calculated to be getting for the High Court, Circuit
Court and the District Court, is it because there is much
more work involved in the High Court case?
That includes the time that was spent preparing the
barristers brief, taking statements from witnesses, going
out to the scene of the accident, instructing the mapper,
going along and interviewing Gárdai, interviewing
doctors, surgeons, looking at X-rays, passing them on to
doctors. There is an enormous amount of back-up work,
and in criminal work it is just the same. So you just do not
go in and get £40 an hour —no way.
What would you say to Mrs. Smith in the Street who said
she never saw a poor solicitor?
Well that it would be a poor profession that was going
round in dilapidated condition. It would not inspire much
confidence to Mrs. Smith. I think we must try and keep up
appearances and that is what we try to do.
And does that mean that you have to have very big fees to
do that?
I think the fees are not very big if you see the
Commission's own figures. They are talking about an
average for solicitors of £6,500 a year in round figures. I
do not think there is anything extraordinary about that.
There are many, many electricians and more power to
them and other skilled people who are earning much
more.
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